Pelicot 16
15/102024 software translated court report
Fearless song
May the State, the sky, the streets tremble,
may the judges and policemen be afraid.
Today, peace is taken away from us women.
They sowed fear in us, we grew wings
Translation of the court report by Juliette Campion France
Tuesday, October 15, seventh week at the trial of the rapes of #Mazan at the Avignon court. Relatively few audiences, very few journalists. We should hear today the psychological expertise of the seven defendants of the week. LT to follow for @franceinfo
The hearing is open. We hear the first psychological expertise of the day: that of Dominique D., 45 years old: he appears in custody for having gone five times to the home of Gisèle and Dominique Pelicot, between 2016 and 2020. #Mazan
Dominique D. never knew his parents: he was placed in a foster family at six months old. "He has a low capacity for attachment" to his two foster families, the psychologist points out.
He repeated his sixth grade, then his third, then his second, in a technical high school. He didn't get the baccalaureate. He joined the army in 2,000. He became a soldier in Valencia, and remained in the army for eight years. Then he became a truck driver.
He explains that at the time of the facts, he was not sexually fulfilled in his relationship. "With my wife, we must have had sex less than ten times in twelve years," he told the expert. So he was looking for something else and registered on Coco.
Dominique Pelicot had him come to his house. "It was a sexual delirium," says Dominique D. "It was too hot, I had erection problems, it wasn't a burst," he says, adding: "I can't see it as rape." #Mazan
The expert psychologist notes several "elements in favor of a personality of a perverse type", in particular because he does not show "empathy" towards the victim: "he tries to place her as an actor in the facts".
Dominique D. "does not reveal any question about having found himself in this context and questions the potential complicity of the victim. He hides behind his erectile dysfunction, and absolves himself of guilt by blaming Dominique Pelicot," she explains.
"In the end, the victim does not exist in his speech," insists the expert.
Dominique D.'s psychological suffering dates back "to early childhood" where he forged a "feeling of non-family belonging", notes the psychologist. "His relationship with others was hindered too early for him to be able to build himself," she continues.
"You present few favourable elements", observes the president. "Since birth, the man has built himself by protecting himself from the other, because the other was insecure. There is a lot of work to be done in the long term," she believes.
"Have you ever met this type of profile?" the attorney general asked him. The psychologist nods. "I have already seen that changes are possible, if there is a real desire to evolve on the part of the person concerned," she says.
Lawyer Emile-Henri Biscarrat, who represents Dominique D., believes that the portrait drawn by the expert is very incriminating, and is surprised that she depicts him as "a solitary man", when he spent several years in the army and was part of a group of hunters.
"The army is a space where people who have lacked a family environment go to look for it. It's a very strict, minimalist framework: you act, you are a body. The army was there to try to fill something," analyzes the expert psychologist.
"Hunting is the same type of activity. There is something very structured. Mr. D. is aware of his limits, he rows with that," she continues.
The lawyer is surprised that she considered that Dominique D. could be "a manipulator". "It's almost good news, because I find it very basic since the beginning of this case," he said.
"I don't mention him as a manipulator on the rest of the expertise: I say that he manipulated the words," she said.
Clarification: the investigators concluded that Dominique D. had gone to #Mazan five times, between 2016 and 2020. But the person concerned admitted to having been there as early as 2015, on the night of February 14 (there are no videos of these facts, however). The accused would therefore have been there six times in total.
After a long series of questions, the lawyer ended by considering that "the conclusions" of the expert were, on the whole, "a little hasty".
We move on to the second psychological expertise: that of Cyprien C., 43 years old. He says he had an "adorable, loving mother who suffered domestic violence". He describes his father as "a violent, alcoholic man, who never took care of his children."
When Cyprien C. was 3 years old, his mother decided to place him with his brother, to protect them. From the age of 3 to 8, he had his first foster family. Then another from her 10 to 18 years old. From the age of 18, he returned to his mother's house.
He first worked in factories. Then he joined the town hall of Carpentras, working for garbage trucks. He then worked for a recycling plant. From 2014, he started drinking and using cocaine.
In total, he says he had about ten convictions for thefts with his brother. He believes that the latter's only goal is "to make his life miserable".
Cyprien C. had diverticulitis in 2015, with perforation of the small and large intestines. He underwent three operations and had to stay in hospital for four months.
Regarding the facts, which date back to November 2017, he analyses: "at the time, I didn't have a girlfriend anymore, I was coming out of the hosto, I fell into drugs, I met a couple, I went, I shouldn't have".
The expert believes that he shows "a lot of empathy" towards the victim. "His speech is punctuated by tears, with a feeling of guilt," she continued, noting that he has "his gaze downcast, his back bent, like a man who is ashamed of what he has done."
For her, Cyprien C. "was not able to build a good image of himself: the only stable element was his brother, but he led to a lot of criminal behavior."
"He is a vulnerable man, in need of security, affection," she concludes.
The president is slamming Emile-Henri Biscarrat, Dominique D.'s lawyer, who criticized the psychologist's expertise at length earlier. "It's a shame that he came out, because he would have seen that you perfectly individualize your expertise," says Roger Arata.
"The trial that was made of you earlier is regrettable, you are not here to suffer assaults like this. You have done your job, that's what is expected of an expert. I congratulate you on this," adds the president of the Vaucluse criminal court.
"I note that, in Mr. C.'s statements, it is always the fault of the other," says Béatrice Zavarro, Dominique Pelicot's lawyer. "In any case, it was built on a slope where it suffers," observes the expert psychologist.
"Everything in his life seems to be the fault of [the other], he is not in control of what happens to him," she adds, pointing to "a total lack of self-confidence" in Cyprien C.
We are now hearing the third psychological expertise, concerning Mohamed R., 70 years old, who appears in detention. The facts concerning him date back to May 2019 and took place in Ile-de-Ré, in the house of Caroline Darian and her husband.
Mohamed R. is the eldest of seven children. He was born in Marco and arrived in France in 1980. "He has not had any connection with any member of the siblings since the death of their mother in 2014," says the expert, because he is perceived as responsible for her death by them.
Mohamed R. has an "eclectic" professional background. He has no diploma and first became a worker at the age of 18 in a wastewater treatment plant, then in a textile factory. Then, from 1980 to 1988, he became a forklift driver, then a salesman, then a manager, in a paint shop.
In 1990, he joined an explosive powder company. In 1992, he says he opened a nightclub. In 1999, he was the victim of a knife attack: he began to receive a pension as a disabled adult.
Then, in 1999, his daughter filed a complaint for rape against him. He was convicted. Two other of his daughters, who testified yesterday, considered on the stand that these were slanderous statements. One of them spoke of a "miscarriage of justice".
He married in 1997 and has four children: a daughter and a son, with whom he no longer has contact, a daughter who was murdered, and another whom he sees a little. Then he divorced and remarried. He had two daughters, whom he still sees (they testified yesterday).
He divorced from this second union in 2013. He has major health problems, including chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD). However, "he smokes about ten cigarettes a day," says the expert.
The expert observes a "self-centred discourse" by Mohamed R., "referring to himself as a victim". "He only put forward the word he wanted to put forward, the rest being passed over in silence," she adds.
"He showed a lot of emotionality. He insisted that he was at increased risk of suicide. His behavior was excessive," the expert continues. She says she felt "annoyance" towards him during the interview.
She describes his intelligence as "medium/low", considers him "self-centered". "He made it a point of honor to highlight his unhappiness," she said.
"His words are falsely empathetic," says the psychologist. He added: "the victim does not exist in his perception, in the face of everything he is going through."
Roland Marmillot, Mohamed R.'s lawyer, observes that the expert sums up "70 years of existence in a few hours". "In this case, we can call into question all the expertise," she retorts.
The lawyer notes that she was "annoyed" by her client. "It's not classic in an expert opinion," she admits.
"Didn't that distort your perception?" asks Roland Marmillot. "In everyday life, yes, but here I was in the context of my work," replies the expert.
"None of the men you have appraised has found favour in your eyes," he believes. "You said it was 'a smooth interview'. What do you mean by that?" asks Roland Marmillot. "There was no nuance, no elaboration: it was very factual," she says.
The hearing was suspended for a few minutes. #Mazan
I'm sharing my article of the day, for @franceinfo in which I talk about the public's enthusiasm for this trial of the rapes of #Mazan, and the very strong empathy of women for Gisèle #Pelicot
francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/a...
@franceinfo Resumption of the hearing. Mohamed R., 70 years old, who appears in custody, is being questioned.
@franceinfo "Do you recognize the notion of rape?" the president asked him. "There was no rape, I didn't rape Madame," retorts the septuagenarian in a quivering voice from his box.
@franceinfo "If I may say so, I apologize to Mrs. Pelicot: I was clumsy enough to say 'I am as much a victim as Mrs. Pelicot'. But I am a victim in the sense that Dominique Pelicot manipulated me," he said. Gisèle Pelicot sighs, rolls her eyes.
@franceinfo Mohamed R. is prolific about his life, and says that his "responsibility as the eldest of a family of six children" was his "common thread" after the death of his father, who died young.
@franceinfo "I have always devoted myself to providing for the family, that's why I left Morocco. My motherland is France. I got married very young because my first wife was pregnant: it was to legitimize our child," he continues.
He returns to the murder of one of his daughters and affirms, moved, that he knows the name of the mastermind. The president cuts him off: "try to channel yourself, I know you have a lot to say".
Mohamed R. then addresses the "media lynching" of his daughter, whom he is accused of having raped in 1991: he was convicted for these facts, but he strongly denies it.
"Mr. R., listen to me: we know that this case existed, we know that there was a conviction. Your lawyer has expressed himself on this," the president said. Mohamed R. tries to speak again. "Listen to the president!" interrupts his lawyer.
"We cannot redo this file: it has no place in this debate," the president said.
He then tries to look back on his role as the eldest in his siblings. "That's said in the personality investigation. It is rather your sentimental life, quite dissolute, in the world of nightlife, that interests us... Do you confirm that you have had mistresses?" asks the president.
"Yes," he replies bluntly. "But I'm not a libertine: I don't know the codes of libertinism. If I knew the codes, I would never have fallen into this trap," he says, raising his voice.
The president questions him about his health. "My state of health today, sincerely, Mr. President... I would like to end my life with my family. I am convicted, my days are numbered, but I don't want to die in prison," he said, crying.
Mohamed R. suffers from cancer.
The president cuts him off again: "I will instruct your lawyer to inform us precisely about your state of health: it is important".
The magistrate then questioned him about his psychological follow-up in detention. "Of course I have a follow-up, and I have been recognized as disabled," adds the man.
"My client was startled when she heard that your life has been marked by a deep 'respect for women'. And yet, you are tried twice in 25 years for rape. Don't you see a contradiction?" asks Stéphane Babonneau, Gisèle Pelicot's lawyer.
"I don't understand your question at all," replies the septuagenarian. The president rephrased.
"I'm not as much of a victim as Mrs. Pelicot: her husband has made it his thing! Its object!" he says. The woman rolls her eyes, annoyed.
"So, if I follow your reasoning: you, are you the secondary victim?" continues Stéphane Babonneau. "Yes, but not as much as madame," retorts Mohamed R., who says he wants to "file a complaint for manipulation and abuse of weakness".
"I just humbly allow myself to make a remark: the clinical picture that I am going to give to the court on the physiological but also psychological and psychiatric ailments of my client, leads him to have this attitude," says his lawyer, Roland Marmillot.
"I was the first to be surprised, and the first to be annoyed. I had this first feeling, which I would almost describe as unpleasant. But he is not able to express himself in any other way," he said.
The hearing is suspended, it will resume at 2 p.m.
The hearing has resumed. We hear the psychological expertise of Mahdi D., met in April 2022, while he was in pre-trial detention: he appears free today.
His parents are said to have separated in 1994/95: his mother came to live in France with the children, his father remained in Algeria. "I was close to my dad: it was a bit hard at first," he says.
Mahdi D. says he has moved around a lot and describes himself as a good student. He passed the baccalaureate, and enrolled in university to do an AES degree but which he did not finish. He entered working life and, at the time of the facts, he was employed on a permanent contract.
The alleged facts date back to October 2018. "I have been accused of rape: it is not representative of me or my personality," he assures the expert.
He claims that Dominique Pelicot told him, at the time of his arrival, that his wife had just "taken her shower" and that she was "less used to it than him". "It's not me, I never wanted to hurt anyone," he told the expert, crying.
The expert's presentation is quite short, very compact. An assessor remarks that her conclusions, particularly on Mahdi D.'s family past, differ greatly from those of the personality investigator.
He seems to have embellished his childhood with the expert psychologist, because he explained, during the personality investigation, that his mother had filed a complaint against his father, to ensure that he could no longer see his children.
"The subject is adapting... Did he want to give the expert a good image?" asks the psychologist.
The attorney general stressed that the personality investigator considered that "his only fault was his great kindness" and that he has only a "limited ability to see evil in others".
"There is certainly a little immaturity, but it is not something notorious either," says the expert.
We now hear the fifth psychological expertise: that of Cyril B., 46 years old. He says he has "no criminal record". At the time the expert met him, in detention, "he was taking an antidepressant, an anxiolytic and a sleeping pill".
Cyril B. appears free, for facts dating back to November 2018. His father was a baker, his mother a salesman in the trade. He reports that his parents "tried to be present as often as possible" but that his father "had long working hours".
He describes his mother as "quite gentle, patient". "My father, when he has something to say, he says it, without taking gloves. I don't really like confits, so I never say anything," explains Cyril B.
He passed a CAP which he did not obtain, then did his military service at the age of 18. But he did not commit himself afterwards: "I can't be treated like a dog all day," he told the expert.
He then trained to become a truck driver: he has been in this profession for 22 years.
The expert believes that he has difficulty managing his emotions. The defendant said: "When it overflows, it's a hurricane, I have trouble controlling myself. When it breaks, it gives up."
Cyril B. had relationships, but also many fleeting affairs. "In 2016, he met his partner: the two lived separately and saw each other on weekends," says the expert. The accused reports a "classic sexuality, without foreplay".
Responding to a question from the civil party about his level of intelligence and awareness on the evening of the facts, she believes that Cyril B. "has sufficient cognitive-intellectual tools to elaborate".
We move on to the second personality interrogation of the week: that of Cyprien C. The 43-year-old man approaches the bar, is dressed in a navy blue, white and beige striped sweater. He keeps his hands behind his back when he speaks.
"I was born in Mazan. At the age of 3, I was placed in the DASS, until I was 7 years old. I was then placed in a foster family. When I was 11 and a half, the host family's husband brought me home from school, the house was empty: he had separated from his wife," he says.
"Then I joined another host family. And when I was 18, I went back to my mother's house to take care of her, because she was sick," continues the forty-year-old.
He adds: "I lost my sister in 2014. Then I was sick: I stopped everything professionally. That's where my problems started." Cyprien C.'s record includes nine convictions, including for "theft and receiving stolen goods" and "theft by deception with break-in".
In 2019, he met a new partner. "We stayed together until I was detained and when I was released, we separated," he said. "Then I had a permanent contract for a year and then I was made redundant: my boss went bankrupt. I haven't had a job for a year."
The president asked him about his older brother. "He hasn't always been good advice. You have been described as a follower," reports Roger Arata. "Trying to help him, I got lost. I said to myself: 'it's better that I help myself'", replies Cyprien C.
"The personality investigator was wrong when she said that I had been abused by my mother. She escaped from my father's clutches. She took us to day hospitals...", he recalls, adding that she has Alzheimer's disease.
An assessor asked him if he had taken steps to see his son. "I have no news of him: the only news I have is his mother who writes. She doesn't want me to see him again. I can understand, I don't dare to look him in the face," he replies, crying.
Son avocate lui demande pourquoi il a refusé de faire citer plusieurs de ses amis comme témoins. "Je veux protéger au maximum les gens, je ne veux pas qu'ils soient… Je ne veux pas qu'ils soient mêlés à tout ça", justifie Cyprien C.
Il est allé voir son père en sortant de détention provisoire. Il est mort trois jours après. "Je ne l'avais pas vu depuis huit ans", souligne Cyprien C.
On passe à la sixième expertise psychologique de la journée : celle de Redouane A. L'accusé de 40 ans comparaît détenu, poursuivi pour être allé deux fois à Mazan : en mars et en avril 2019.
Lorsque les enquêteurs l'identifient sur les vidéos de Dominique Pelicot, Redouane A. était déjà incarcéré, depuis août 2020.
Il avait été condamné à deux ans et et demi d'emprisonnement, notamment pour menace de mort et outrage à l'encontre d'une personne dépositaire de l'autorité publique, violences sur conjoint, et menaces de mort réitérées sur conjoint.
Redouane A. est né au Maroc "mais a grandi en France", souligne l'expert. Il a été élevé par son père, sa mère l'a abandonné à l'âge d'un an. Il a eu un enfant d'environ 13 ans, avec qui il n'a plus de contacts.
"Je bois beaucoup, c'est pour ça que j'ai déconné avec ma compagne, j'étais soûl", déclare-t-il à l'expert psychologue.
Celui-ci fait état d'une "personnalité très peu structurée, immature, avec des dispositions psychiques en rapport avec un contexte éducatif carent : violences, abandons, absences de repères stables".
"Il décrivait les faits de manière volubile, sans prise en compte de leur caractère transgressif", relève l'expert. Selon lui, les caractéristiques de sa personnalité "sont très peu susceptibles d'être modifiées par la psychothérapie".
"C'est un tableau assez péjoratif…", constate le président, rappelant que Redouane A. totalise "20 mentions à son casier". "Il a passé sept années en prison", souligne Roger Arata.
Apparté : on entend très mal l'expert dans la salle d'audience. Il parle dans sa barbe, d'une voix peu audible, trop loin du micro.
L'avocat de Redouane A. souligne que son client a été diagnostiqué schizophrène en prison.
On passe à la dernière expertise psychologique, concernant Ahmed T., 54 ans, poursuivi pour des faits remontant à juin 2019.
Ahmed T. est né au Maroc mais n'y a vécu que quelques années. Il est issu d'une fratrie de cinq enfants. Au moment des faits, il était avec sa compagne depuis trente ans, avec laquelle il a eu trois filles et deux petites filles.
"Il n'a pas d'antécédents victimant de nature sexuelle", précise l'expert. Au moment des faits, il décrit Dominique Pelicot comme "un homme insistant". Ahmed T. déclare : "ça m'a dégoûté d'être l'outil de quelqu'un".
Dominique Pelicot "m'a dit 'chut', et j'ai compris qu'un truc n'était pas normal : je me suis déshabillé, je suis parti", a-t-il relaté.
L'expert ne relève pas "d'anomalie du fonctionnement intellectuel ou cognitif du sujet, qui est parfaitement capable de faire face à sa situation judiciaire : c'est un sujet sans antécédents".
"C'est un parcours de vie ponctué de réussites sur le plan social, professionnel, associatif", note le président. Ni l'avocat général, ni la partie civile, ni l'avocate d'Ahmed D. n'ont de questions. Les expertises psychologiques des sept accusés sont terminées.
Plusieurs témoins ne se sont pas présentés. On lit la déposition de Fatima B., une ex-compagne de Mahdi D. "Je l'ai rencontré deux jours avant son anniversaire, nous avons parlé de son travail. En partant il m'a embrassé, il n'a pas eu de gestes déplacés", rapporte-t-elle.
"Il a la tête sur les épaules. Je n'ai jamais passé une nuit complète avec lui. On a eu des relations sexuelles mais il n'était pas vraiment porté sur ça : on pouvait passer des heures à discuter. Nous avions des rapports classiques", poursuit-elle.
L'audience est suspendue avant un autre interrogatoire de personnalité. LT à suivre pour @franceinfo
Reprise d'audience. On entend maintenant Dominique D., qui répond aux questions de la cour depuis son box. Il revient sur ses années en tant que militaire. L'homme de 45 ans s'est engagé dans l'armée en 2000 : il y est resté huit ans. Puis il est devenu chauffeur routier.
"Ce qu'on veut savoir, c'est si vous avez ramené un stress post-traumatique, lié au retour de scènes de guerre. On doit prendre en compte votre état antérieur", précise le président.
"A chaque retour de mission, on est traités par un psychologue. Dès qu'il y a un fait d'arme", assure-t-il.
"Vous avez fondé un foyer avec une dame un peu plus âgée que vous, qui avait déjà d'autres enfants. Votre fils naît en 2009. Il a 15 ans. Il est avec sa maman ?", l'interroge le président. "Affirmatif", répond l'homme, précisant qu'ils sont désormais divorcés.
"Je l'ai tous les soir au téléphone, je suis de très près sa scolarité. Je le vois au parloir tous les quinze jours. On a de très bons liens avec mon ex-femme, on s'entend très bien", assure Dominique D.
The president asked him why he had gone to the Coco site, where he had met Dominique Pelicot. "I had a lack of sexuality with my wife, it was in search of something new," explains the man dressed in a black sweater, with a shaved head.
"I was looking for a couple," says the man who had an extramarital affair "with a single woman". "It was restrictive because she wanted the long term. It wasn't what I was looking for. I wanted a plan without any headaches," he explains.
Dominique D. has been "in pre-trial detention since March 25, 2021," the president recalled. As a reminder: the forty-year-old is being prosecuted for having gone to Mazan five times. The person concerned even admitted a sixth act.
"You are the youngest of sixteen children," said the president.
"I have no news of my sixteen brothers and sisters. I didn't do any research. I know that there was a divorce between my real mother and my real father. My mother had four other children behind her, so she has twenty children," says the defendant with a laugh.
"It's the families of the north! Just at the level of my adoptive mother, there are eleven brothers and sisters," adds Dominique D. in an amused tone. He is originally from Fenain, in the North.
We now hear Cyril B. about his personality. He is being prosecuted for facts dating back to November 2018.
Apparté: he doesn't speak into the microphone, I do what I can to transcribe...
"On my school career... It wasn't really my thing. There are no bad students, there are only bad teachers, it seems," he says. The 46-year-old accused, who appears free, says he did his military service at the age of 18 and then worked several jobs.
The president reads the report of his socio-judicial follow-up. "Mr. Cyril B. has respected his judicial control. He describes a good understanding with his employer. He is invested in the care pathway. His psychological state improved over the course of the follow-up," it is noted.
"But he is apprehensive about the rest of the procedure and the consequences it could have on his life with his partner," it said.
"There is talk of treatment for sexual addictions... How would you define yourself at the time, before police custody?" he asked him.
"I didn't go out to meet people, I didn't have an unbridled life," says Cyril B.
"Do you, as another defendant said, assume that all truck drivers go to see prostitutes?" the president continued. The accused replied in the negative but admitted to having been there a few times. "Like all young people when we were 20 years old," he says.
The president asks him why he went to Coco. "Curiosity, talking, you're interested in other people... It wasn't a great success," he said.
Cyril B. says he is not worth any children. "Because I don't want a child who grows up without his father," he explains. "On the life of a couple, truck drivers, it doesn't last long...", adds the man on the stand.
"Do you blame your parents?" asks his lawyer, Guillaume de Palma. "Absolutely not," assures his client.
"If they had been more present, would you have had another life?" insists his counsel. "I lacked nothing. They made sure that I kept busy: football, catechism...", he lists, still difficult to hear (but no one tells him to speak into the microphone).
"Did the fact that you had activities mean that your parents didn't need to take care of you?" continues Guillaume de Palma. "Yes," replies Cyril B.
His lawyer invites him to look back on his life in detention. "I spent more than six months sleeping on a mattress on the floor. There were two of us, in 9 m2," he says.
"Has your sexuality been upset by this case?" asks his other lawyer, Alexia Berard. "Yes yes... I don't know if it's right or wrong now what I have to do. I'm afraid of it," replies Cyril B.
The interrogation is over. The hearing is suspended. It will resume tomorrow, at 9 a.m., with the continuation of the personality interrogations, the beginning of some interrogations on the facts and part of the psychiatric expertise. Thank you for your follow-up!
At the Mazan rape trial, the public's unwavering support for Gisèle Pelicot, "this incredibly strong little woman"
Article written byJuliette Campion
France Televisions
Published10/15/2024 10:03
Reading time: 9min
Every day, dozens of people of all ages crowd into the Avignon courthouse to try to get into the small 60-seat broadcast room, the only way for the public to attend the hearings.
"I'm here to support Mrs. Pelicot." This phrase is almost always repeated by the dozens of women of all ages who, like Sonia, 60, rush every morning to the Avignon courthouse for the Mazan rape trial . The earliest risers start waiting around at 7:15 a.m. The doors generally open an hour later. Then, it's always the same rush to get through security checks and get into the small room where the hearing is being broadcast, which has 60 seats.
Since the trial opened on September 2, more and more women have been attending this meeting to support the victim. Mostly women, but also a few men. Some come as soon as they can and have become familiar faces. Others come more occasionally, because they live in Avignon or are passing through the region. Students, working women, mothers, retirees... It is impossible to draw up a typical profile. A few female politicians have mingled with the public, such as MP Sandrine Josso , herself a victim of chemical submission, as well as the national secretary of EELV, Marine Tondelier.(New window)Over the weeks, the crowds have increased, and it is not uncommon for some to be turned away due to lack of space.
"We want to tell them: 'Be men, take responsibility!'"
Among these regulars are Roselyne and Mireille, aged 65 and 64 respectively. They have been following the case from the beginning and feel "a lot of anger" after hearing the interrogations of several accused , the week of September 23. "When they say: 'I didn't know it was rape,' but we see on the videos that they are careful not to make noise... We want to tell them: 'At least be men, take responsibility for what you did!'" the retirees complain in unison. Both praise "the courage" of Gisèle Pelicot. "A goddess ," says Roselyne, moved.
Bérangère, who drove three-quarters of an hour from her village of Cabrières-d'Avignon, is also fascinated by "this little woman, incredibly strong". This fifty-year-old says she experienced "a shock" when she discovered the affair. "We realize that the issue of chemical submission is very little known. It can happen to anyone", she emphasizes. She is particularly worried "for young people", who can be subjected to "the date rape drug in drinks [GHB]", but assures that she has not "changed her view of men" as a result.
In the queue, we are replaying "this historic trial". "The case of the century" , some even say. This is not really the opinion of Eve, who is talking quietly to a woman next to her. "I am a police officer, we have been talking about it with my colleagues for several weeks, so I came to see" . "For me, this trial is not out of the ordinary: it's just that we caught 51 [men] at the same time. That's really the particularity. The facts, in themselves, are unfortunately not surprising" , affirms this 36-year-old civil servant, short hair and motorcycle helmet in hand. She salutes "the decisive work of the investigators" and assures that the police are now always instructed to search the phones of suspects, in any "sexual offence" . "Sometimes, we have little surprises..." , she adds, without saying more.Â
"He really looks like a rock star"
Depending on the generation, each follows the trial differently: the older ones read the regional press and get their information mainly from television. The younger ones get their information from social networks, like Angélique, 33, who follows "all the hearings on the social network X , so as not to miss anything and to have all the details".
This radio operator, who came on her days off, took charge of some of the accused, including Dominique Pelicot, as part of her work. "We give x-rays to all the arrivals at Pontet [the Avignon penitentiary] , " she explains. "I didn't know what they were accused of at the time... Now, it's strange to me . What Gisèle Pelicot is experiencing affects me personally ," she adds, as the septuagenarian passes in front of the audience, to applause and "Bravos .  "
"She really looks like a rock star ," marvels Nathalie, a lecturer in sociology in Paris, still surprised by the emotion she felt when Gisèle Pelicot approached her to thank the audience. "Clearly, something is happening, a bit like with the applause during confinement ," compares the 47-year-old researcher.Â
"Unlike Gisèle Halimi, who is often referred to in this trial, it is not the lawyer who carries the charisma: it is the victim."
Nathalie, lecturer in sociology
to franceinfo
"She shows that she was right to ask for the absence of closed sessions ," says Zoé, 22, who is studying for a Master 2 in sentence enforcement law at the Aix-en-Provence university. The student, who mainly gets her information from TikTok, travelled with her friend Marie, who has joined a Master 2 in insurance law at the same university.
"It is the trial of the cowardice of men"
If there is a trial to follow in the wake of MeToo, it is this one , " says the latter, for whom Gisèle Pelicot is a "good victim" . She explains and describes a woman "straight, proud, and who has hundreds of videos as material evidence.  But many other women are not so lucky. Rapes, usually, are the word of one against the word of the other, and we rarely believe the person raped in the story" , regrets the young woman.
Sonia, who always arrives early for the hearing, has made the trip ten times from her village of Saint Saturnin-lès-Avignon, about ten kilometers away. "The first hearing I attended was the interrogation of Mr. Pelicot , on September 17. This man is truly the narcissistic pervert in all his splendor: hyper-sure of himself, who contradicts the accused as soon as he can ," observes the sixty-year-old.
And what about men in all this? "We are very poorly represented," admits Jacques, a 77-year-old from Avignon. This "active retiree," as he defines himself, has come to the trial a dozen times, despite a disability in his right leg that prevents him from walking normally. "I notice that the men around me don't really like it when we talk to them about the case. Maybe they feel accused of simply being men," he analyzes, with a nervous laugh. Â
"In this trial, not all men are rapists, but all rapists are men."
Jacques, retired
to franceinfo
"I don't talk about this case with everyone, because I have the impression that some people consider me a voyeur, whereas it's not the images that interest me, but the debates between lawyers, experts, with the public prosecutor..." , defends this former salesman in a large European group.
The septuagenarian says he feels "a bit of disgust" at the facts, and wonders: "How can you have sex with someone who looks more like a puppet than a woman? How can you have desire?" Walid feels the same way, struggling to find the words to describe what he feels. The 19-year-old student says he is "disgusted" by the facts. He has come to hear the defendants' arguments and see "how they are trying to get out of it" .
Marc, who is very verbose, says he is "super angry" about what he hears during the hearings, particularly the denials of the accused. "I had to go play sports after the interrogations to get it out. Otherwise, it would have been the worst day of my life ," says the man who comes regularly and describes himself as "a 50-year-old white male" who is part of "the privileged of the system ." He thought it would be a trial for history, "like that of Klaus Barbie(New window)" . "But, from what I see for the moment, nothing is going to come of it: everyone is trying to pass the buck, no one is coming forward and taking responsibility ," he blames. "For me, it is the trial of human cowardice."
Canción sin miedo
V1
Que tiemble el Estado, los cielos, las calles
Que teman los jueces y los judiciales
Hoy a las mujeres nos quitan la calma
Nos sembraron miedo, nos crecieron alas
Women san this song outside the Avignon Courthous
